HOUR. SO. CHOPPER FOUR, JIM, YOU COAUTHORED A NEW PIECE THAT JUST POSTED ON AXIOS.COM MOMENTS AGO, TAKING A CRITICAL LOOK AT THE FUTURE OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE. IT’S A PRETTY INCREDIBLE PIECE. IT’S ENTITLED BEHIND THE CURTAIN A WHITE COLLAR BLOODBATH THAT IS COULD BE THE RESULT OF AI. >> WELL, YEAH. >> AND YOU. >> KNOW, >> JIM, PEOPLE THAT RUN AI COMPANIES DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT. THEY WANT TO PRETEND IT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. SILICON VALLEY. >> WANTS TO. >> PRETEND IT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. WALL STREET DOESN’T REALLY WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT. BUT THE FACT IS, AS YOU REPORT, JUST LIKE THE TECHNOLOGICAL REVOLUTION, THE IT REVOLUTION GUTTED BLUE COLLAR WORKERS THROUGHOUT THE 90S AND BEYOND, YOU’RE NOW TALKING ABOUT A BLOODBATH FOR WHITE COLLAR WORKERS BECAUSE OF AI AND FROM FROM WHAT YOU’VE SEEN AND WHAT YOU’RE REPORTING ON, IT IS GOING TO BE A BLOODBATH FOR WORKERS. >> I MEAN, THAT IS CERTAINLY. >> THE. >> WARNING OF DARIO AMODEI, WHO IS THE CEO OF ANTHROPIC. AND JUST FOR YOUR VIEWERS, ANTHROPIC IS ONE OF THE TOP CREATORS OF THIS AI, THESE LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS IN. >> THE WORLD. >> SO HE HAS BETTER VISIBILITY THAN PROBABLY ALL BUT 2 OR 3 PEOPLE IN THE. >> WORLD INTO THE POWER. >> OF THIS TECHNOLOGY. HE’D BEEN TELLING US. >> IN PRIVATE FOR A. >> WHILE THAT THIS BLOODBATH COULD BE COMING, BUT THAT LAWMAKERS DON’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOESN’T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT. AI COMPANIES DON’T WANT TO SPOOK PEOPLE. WE FINALLY CONVINCED HIM TO GO ON THE RECORD IN. HIS POINT IS LIKE, LISTEN, JUST PLAY WITH THIS TECHNOLOGY, NOT JUST CASUALLY. >> LIKE ONCE. >> YOU REALLY DIVE INTO IT, YOU REALIZE IT CAN DO THE WORK ALREADY OF. >> RESEARCHERS. >> OF ANALYSTS, OF. A WHOLE HOST OF ENTRY LEVEL WHITE COLLAR JOBS. AND HE PUT. >> IT. >> IN THE STARKEST OF TERMS, HE SAID, LIKE BASED ON THEIR EARLY ANALYSIS OVER A FIVE YEAR PERIOD, IT COULD WIPE OUT HALF OF WHITE COLLAR ENTRY LEVEL JOBS. UNEMPLOYMENT COULD SPIKE TO 10 TO 20% IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. AND THIS IS A GUY WHO’S BUILDING THE TECHNOLOGY, WHO’S BOASTING ABOUT THE POWER OF IT. AND WHEN WE PUSHED HIM ON THE IF YOU’RE BUILDING IT, LIKE, HOW DO YOU MORALLY KIND OF THINK ABOUT IT IN YOUR OWN MIND? AND HE SAID, I HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO BUILD THE TECHNOLOGY. I ALSO HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO GET THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, TO GET LAWMAKERS, TO GET OTHER AI COMPANIES TO FIGURE OUT HOW DO WE PREPARE THE. >> AMERICAN WORKER. >> AND HOW DO WE PROTECT THE AMERICAN WORKER. AND SO, YOU KNOW, AS SOMEONE WHO RUNS A COMPANY, I RUN AXIOS AS A CEO, I SPEND AN INORDINATE AMOUNT OF TIME STUDYING AI AND HOW IT’S GOING TO PLAY OUT JUST IN MY SPACE OF MEDIA. AND I CAN GUARANTEE YOU IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS, IT’S GOING TO RADICALLY TRANSFORM THE MAKEUP OF OUR COMPANY. WELL, EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IN THE WORLD IS DOING THIS. EVERY CEO IS SITTING THERE SAYING, SHOULD I FILL. THIS ROLE? SHOULD I OPEN THIS ROLE? WILL A MACHINE DO THIS BETTER THAN MAN IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS? WHEN YOU SEE DATA OUT ABOUT THE DIFFICULTY OF COLLEGE GRADS FINDING NEW JOBS, THIS IS ONE OF THE EARLY TELLTALE SIGNS THAT THIS COULD BE COMING. AND SO I THINK THE COLUMN IS VERY MUCH WORTH A READ. I WISH LAWMAKERS SPENT MORE TIME THINKING ABOUT THIS, RATHER THAN SOME OF THE SMALL BALL THINGS THAT THEY DEBATE DAY TO DAY. >> IT’S BEEN FASCINATING TO SEE MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DEVELOPING AI TECHNOLOGY, JIM, OFFERING WARNINGS ABOUT WHAT’S COMING BECAUSE OF IT. AND IN YOUR INTERVIEW, HE EFFECTIVELY SAYS, YOU CANNOT STOP THIS TRAIN. IT’S COMING DOWN THE TRACKS. THIS IS HAPPENING. I THINK THE WAY HE PUTS IT IN YOUR INTERVIEW, THOUGH, IS YOU CAN STEER IT A LITTLE BIT. WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE? WHAT IS STEERING IT LOOK LIKE. >> IN HIS MIND? I THINK IT’S SOUNDING THE ALARM. IT’S LIKE, LISTEN, WE GOT TO HAVE A NATIONAL DEBATE THAT THIS ISN’T TEN YEARS FROM NOW. IT COULD BE SIX MONTHS FROM NOW. IT COULD BE 12 MONTHS FROM NOW. THEN THERE HAS TO BE A DEBATE ABOUT, OKAY, HOW DO YOU MAKE SURE THAT. WORKERS ARE PREPARED TO USE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE TO AUGMENT THEIR WORK, NOT DISPLACE THEIR WORK? THAT’S WHAT WE’VE BEEN DOING AT AXIOS. WE GIVE EVERYBODY ACCESS TO THE TECHNOLOGY. WE HAVE A DEAL WITH OPENAI. WE MAKE SURE THAT EVERY SINGLE UNIT, NO MATTER WHAT YOUR JOB IS, IS ALREADY PLAYING WITH THIS TO FIGURE OUT HOW ARE YOU GOING TO AUGMENT YOUR WORK SO YOU DON’T GET DISPLACED BY IT? HOW? I TOLD MY OWN STAFF, YOU’RE COMMITTING CAREER SUICIDE IF YOU’RE NOT SPENDING 10% OF YOUR DAY EXPERIMENTING WITH THE TECHNOLOGY. AND I DON’T THINK MOST PEOPLE ARE, I THINK PEOPLE ARE LIKE, WHOA, THIS IS TOO SCIENCE FICTION. OR, YOU KNOW, IT’S A REALLY NEAT SEARCH ENGINE. THEY’RE NOT ACTUALLY LOOKING AT THE CAPABILITIES. THEY DON’T HAVE THE TIME. THEY HAVE REAL LIVES. BUT I THINK DARIO’S POINT WAS THEY MIGHT NOT WAKE UP UNTIL IT’S WAY TOO LATE. AND IF LAWMAKERS ARE WAY TOO LATE TO IT, YOU COULD HAVE REAL ISSUES. YOU COULD HAVE UNEMPLOYMENT, AS YOU SAID, 10 TO 20% IF HE’S RIGHT, WHICH WOULD THEN LEAD TO OBVIOUS POLITICAL UNREST. WE HAVE STEVE BANNON ON THE RECORD IN THERE SAYING HE THINKS THE EXACT SAME THING IS GOING TO PLAY OUT. HE SAID TRUMP’S NOT TALKING ABOUT IT, BUT HE THINKS THIS WILL BE MAYBE THE BIGGEST TOPIC OF THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. >> I MEAN. >> YOU HAVE STEVE, YOU HAVE STEVE BANNON ON THE RIGHT. YOU HAVE OTHER PEOPLE ON THE LEFT VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THIS. AND JIM, UNDERLINE, YOU UNDERLINED A POINT THAT I’VE ACTUALLY TOLD MY KIDS, WHICH IS IF YOU’RE GOING INTO AN INTERVIEW, IF YOU’RE IF YOU’RE GOING INTO ANYTHING WHERE, WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO BE TALKING AND YOU WANT TO UNDERSTAND A TOPIC, IT’S JUST FOOLISH NOT TO GO. GO ON TO A SEARCH ENGINE APP, AN AI SEARCH ENGINE APP, AND DIG IN DEEP TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE COMPANY THAT YOU’RE TALKING TO OR AN ISSUE THAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT BETTER. IT’S IT IS ELIZABETH. IT IS THE FUTURE. THE FUTURE IS NOW. AND A LOT OF THE SPACES THAT WE WORK IN TEN YEARS FROM NOW ARE GOING TO LOOK COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BECAUSE OF AI AND WHITE COLLAR WORKERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AS JIM SAID, ARE GOING TO BE DEEPLY IMPACTED. >> SO, JIM, TELL ME HOW HOW EXACTLY WILL THIS AFFECT OUR BUSINESS? SO WILL WE STILL HAVE COPY EDITORS, REPORTERS, BOSSES? WHAT DO YOU WHAT DO YOU WHAT DO YOU SAY. >> I DON’T. >> FOR JOURNALISM. I DON’T THINK THAT THE MACHINES ARE GOING TO DO THE JOURNALISM PER SE, BUT IF YOU PLAY WITH IT AT ALL, YOU REALIZE IT’S GOING TO BE A REALLY GOOD COPY EDITOR. IT’S GOING TO BE A REALLY GOOD MARKETER. IT’S GOING TO BE REALLY GOOD AT DOING RESEARCH. IT’S GOING TO BE REALLY GOOD AT DOING MARKETING. IT’S GOING TO BE REALLY GOOD AT TAKING ANY PIECE AND MAYBE CREATING EIGHT DIFFERENT VARIATIONS TO SEND IT OUT TO ALL THE OTHER PLATFORMS. AND THAT’S WHAT I WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO DO, IS, IS PLAY WITH IT, ASSUMING THAT THE HALLUCINATIONS AND THE ERRORS GO AWAY, BECAUSE THERE ARE TIMES WHERE IT IS TRULY MAGICAL, TRULY MAGICAL. AND IF THAT WERE TO HAPPEN WITH A HUMAN LEVEL EFFICACY, ANYBODY RUNNING A COMPANY? I’M TELLING YOU, AS SOMEONE WHO RUNS A COMPANY, THEY’RE ALWAYS GOING TO CHOOSE AUTOMATION BECAUSE THEY’RE GOING TO BELIEVE THAT OVER TIME IT’S GOING TO MAKE THEIR COMPANY MORE PROFITABLE AND IT’S GOING TO CREATE MORE JOBS. AND THAT MIGHT BE TRUE. AND THAT OFTEN IS TRUE WITH TECHNOLOGY THAT IN THE LONG ARC IT CREATES MORE JOBS. WHAT’S DIFFERENT HERE IS THIS IS A TECHNOLOGY THAT COULD HIT HARD IN THE NEXT 6 TO 18 MONTHS, AND IT’S GOING TO HIT EVERY SINGLE ROLE, POTENTIALLY SIMULTANEOUSLY. AND SOMETHING THAT FAST WITH THAT KIND OF. BREADTH COULD HAVE A MUCH BIGGER EFFECT THAN ALMOST ANY OF THE TOPICS THAT THEY’RE DEBATING ON CAPITOL HILL. AND WHEN YOU TALK TO MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, IT’S ALARMING HOW LITTLE THEY KNOW ABOUT THIS TOPIC AND HOW LITTLE AND HOW HOW INFREQUENTLY THEY TALK TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS ABOUT IT, YOU’RE DOING A DISSERVICE TO THE COUNTRY IF YOU’RE NOT STARTING TO THINK THROUGH WHAT IS THE WORLD LOOK LIKE IN 18 MONTHS TO THREE YEARS? >> YEAH, I MEAN. >> LET’S SAY YOU HAVE 40 OR 50 PEOPLE IN YOUR COMPANY WITH AI. MOST WHITE COLLAR COMPANIES, YOU COULD HIRE 4 OR 5 PEOPLE THAT KNOW THE RIGHT PROMPTS TO ASK THE RIGHT PROMPTS OF AI, AND IT WOULD COVER SO MUCH OF SO MUCH OF THAT WORK. AND YOU ARE RIGHT, THIS IS A THIS IS A FIVE ALARM FIRE AND